Can the Alzheimer’s elders consent to this gameshow my managers put on at the retirement center?

Here’s the landing page for the biggest and most powerful group that advocates for old people not being abused. That’s exploiting them.

https://ncea.acl.gov/About-Us.aspx

This is….complicated. If they were just having the game for residents, there would be nothing wrong with it. In fact, it could and probably be looked at as good and healthy for the residents because mind games exactly like that are good for Alzheimer’s patients so long as it was done theraputically. However, to sell tickets to the public and make money puts it in a whole different category. They are justifying it by saying the residents consented to it. But they had to have legal capacity to do so when they agreed to it. Now, Alzheimer’s or any other mental incapacity can have the legal capacity to wnter into a contract. Legal capacity is a bit different and with dementia you can have bad days and good days. But I highly doubt these guys had any training or even know how to recognize legal capacity for when they “agreed” to it.

But let’s just say the contract, if it actually exists, was valid at the onset. Contracts really have to have a time limit. Courts and the law don’t like contracts in perpetuity. Also, the law would not look favorably upon this as an unconscionable contract because at some point each one of these people would no longer have the capacity to end it.

What can you do? Well, that tough especially if you like your job. I am certain that at least one person’s family would be VERY upset over this and they would have the ability to do something about it. But in your position you don’t have contact info and approaching a family member about it would almost certaintly cost you your job, minimally. But this also sounds exactly like the type of story an investigative reporter would love. Do you have a local newspaper or news tv station that does those type of stories? Contact them. They can imvestigate and possibly blow it open for the world to see or at the very least, with asking questions, the management might just stop.

In the UK care industry, there are important tenets we operate by. 2 of them are 'Safeguarding is everyone's duty', and 'If you think it's a Safeguarding might be a Safeguarding issue, it IS a Safeguarding issue.'

It would be considered your duty to report this, just based on your concern. And if this was ever investigated, everyone who knew and didn't report would be in serious trouble (assuming the authorities found there was abuse here).

So yes you should report, even if you are unsure.

NAL but MSW/PhD with a MSW focus on child/adult welfare.

No, this is straight up elder abuse. This is actually pretty serious. Most states have criteria for elder abuse that fit the following;

The first is that they must be either disabled (physically or mentally) or unable to reasonably give consent due to an otherwise mitigating circumstance. Most commonly the later is substance abuse. This fits the first condition. It doesn't matter that they gave consent 5 years ago.

The second is that they are (1) suffering physical or emotional abuse, (2) being financially exploited, and/or (3) being subject to neglect. Usually #2 is interpreted as someone taking their wealth but it could be interpreted to exist in this situation. Since their disability is being used as entertainment at their expense it would be considered emotional abuse. Even if they gave consent in their most lucid moment earlier that day if they become anxious or upset in the time of the event it could be considered emotional abuse. This is something a reasonable person could anticipate.

The last is they must be a certain age. Most common is 65 or older. However, a person below that age who has lost the capacity to make decisions for themselves due to safety issues is often protected by child welfare laws, which are usually even more strict.

This is almost certainly not legal. It's also unethical and they could lose their operating license due to it. If they do that they could not receive federal funds. Most likely it would just put them into a probation period though.

So here is the problem for you personally. People who work at these facilities, regardless of their position, are put into a class by federal law. You are a 'Mandated Reporter'. That means if you don't report it you are violating federal, and likely state, laws. I won't pretend that this puts you at great risk. It's rarely prosecuted. However, there are two instances where it does get prosecuted, if someone dies or it makes the news. This will eventually make the news. When it does they will come after everyone who knew whether or not they still work there. Administration (their preferred target) is going to claim they knew nothing about it. After that they are going to go after any other staff they can get. They are going to want as many fall guys as possible since elderly people vote frequently and this will anger them a lot. Most likely you are just vulnerable to a fine, $20k is possible. Prison time isn't likely but not unheard of. Being banned, for life, in working in any institution or industry that caters to the elderly/children is very likely as is the permanent loss of any professional license you can possibly get.

Reporting tends to be technically held anonymous. Sometimes it's not in practice though. You just call a phone number (usually adult protective services) and describe what is happening. You absolutely should give your name/position and ask for a reference number of some sort. Document the time, date, reference number, and name/position of the person you talked to. Some states will even send you this via email if you request it. I recommend you do. They won't give you further info later but the act of reporting actually fulfills your obligation as a mandated reporter. Documenting it creates a record that prevents liability or personal prosecution in most states. If the state does not follow up it's on them. A good paying summer internship isn't worth it.

So prodding the patients to use their minds and stimulate their minds is somehow wrong?

Glad you’re in cooking and not patient care. Next thing you’re going to be asking about is it is wrong to make a patient undergo physical therapy after they break their leg.

The activity seems like a very normal, even therapeutic activity for folks in memory care. Selling tickets is bizarre. Who is buying tickets? What a weird show that would be. Are you sure the “grease-ball Italians” aren’t family members or residents themselves?

My mom was in a place like that, and bingo was a big deal. There were even small cash prizes. I played once when visiting, but the staff told me I shouldn’t win because I wasn’t a resident. No problem.

No, this is actually good for them and they aren't hurting anyone. I think it's a really creative way to help them work their brains. They deserve to have some fun too.

I have more of a problem with the audience. BTW, my grandmother who I cared for both had Alzheimer's and one of those sleazy Italians.

She wasn't actually sleazy but what you said wasn't cool.

I used to work in a memory care facility. Done during the day with an activities director, I could see this as a fun activity, but only between residents.

What you described is seedy and abusive after-hours gambling with sundowning residents on display for the entertainment/profitability of spectators. Their POAs would likely be the ones who need to consent as most are oriented to themselves at only certain portions of the day.

I think this is worthy of a report to your local elder protective authority to let them assess.

This sounds highly illegal, and also extremely predatory and abhorrent.

Considering you have no qualms with painting the audience in a certain light, I think you know damn well this is wrong..

Like, this is the type of thing you'd hear about in a news story and think to yourself "What the fuck is wrong with people..." and here you are like "I honestly just don't know if this is alright or not"

The retirement center had them, or a guardian, sign a "terms of service," for lack of a better term, when they started living there.

I’m not even currently intending to sue

What would YOU sue for? Being offended?

THIS IS ELDER ABUSE

You need to report this as a complaint to the state department of health. Once you do that they will send a complaints surveyor in to investigate. I recommend you include the time and dates this happens and as much detail as possible. Describe the people who come and place these bets. How many people are there? Get the names of the residents that this is happening to as well. Is famioy aware of this happening? Is the activity director the one throwing this? Is this scheduled on an activity calender that you can take a picture of and submit to state?

The more detail you have the more the surveyor can do, otherwise it's very hard to prove what the surveyor doesn't actually see themselves. This is a huge deal and it needs to be reported to the state. This is elder abuse.

At first I thought eh, it's in house.

But then you added thay they sell tickets to this thing and let the audiences bet on them.

I'm gonna guess you're a mandated reporter since you work in Healthcare. This is elder abuse. It needs to be reported.

I'd find a new job if I were you. This place is morally questionable at best and abusive at worse. I wouldn't be associated with them if I were you.

Good luck.

Please report this to Adult Protective Services as possible elder abuse if you’re in the US. Let them decide. I find it abhorrent as you’ve described it.

This is NOT therapy, this is some freaky weird humiliation game, imo.

And legally (yes, a lawyer here), it is not legal. These patients are incompetent and only their next of kin or guardians can possibly give consent after full disclosure.

Additionally, the patients should receive payment (a cut of revenue) from this horror, even if their family did agree and if the State decides it isn’t abuse.

This is abusive and informed consent has not been given. This is not therapeutic.

This is a pile of stuff.

Having alzheimers patients bet on what they can remember? Kind of adorable, also an actual therapeutic technique.

Having, in your own words, "greasy Italians" do anything.

I mean...its obviously illegal to gamble on elderly people.

But holy shit calling people greasy Italians is not helping your point.

Why is it immoral?

Isn’t that sort of thing that is recommended to help jog their memories?

NAL. I do work with dementia patients. I am unclear here, so I will ask.

You, a culinary associate at a summer job, don't like dementia patients being asked questions and bet on by "grease-ball Italians", and you think this is immoral. Then, because you ask them during the day and they don't remember, think it means they were abused?

I'm not clear where this elder abuse is you speak of. I am very concerned about your bigotry though. I hope the grease-balls don't touch you or anything.